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TForce | New Union

nospinzone said:
Buster, you ask questions to which, I presume, you already know the answer. Since APWA was formed two years ago, they have no history to which your questions can be addressed. You can't overlook the lack of a track record. Past performance is always the best indicator of future performance. In this situation, you should approach this as if purchasing stock in an IPO. Ask Van and Danny the detailed questions. How are they going to manage the pension? How will health benefits change after retirement? A lot of this stuff is defined on the website, but as you point out, details need to be explained, which will require you to pick up the phone or speak with them at a meeting.

Looking at the past performance of the IBT is possible though. Pension performance--declining payouts and funded liability across the nation with a few exceptions. If you read the August, 2006 Independent Special Counsel report which describes Central States performance, a 10 year IRS extension and increased employer contributions are the only thing keeping CS from a statutory funding deficiency---for the near term. Health insurance--decreased coverage with increased premiums. Baptist Medical Center (Wake Forest Univ/Bowman Gray Medical College) in Winston-Salem, NC began refusing to accept the CS insurance a while back. Contract enforcement--increasing time to resolving grievances. Teamsters are responsible for servicing not only UPS contracts, but also the slew of other companies that distracts from the attention they could be giving you. I’ve pointed out the negative Teamster points. My bias and the bad taste they have put in my mouth preclude me from being positive about the Teamsters. These are indicators of most recent performance, not to discredit the good they did 10 and 20 years ago. Should you vote in the upcoming November elections based on how President Nixon or Ford performed or how the current administration is performing?

If there are specifics you would like to discuss here, point them out. Goals and clearly defined plans to achieve those goals are how challengers win government elections against incumbents every year. These goals and plans and how they allign with you and your co-workers priorities should be the benchmark you use to make your decisions.
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No track record , No performance record, A rumor stating they can double my monies in retirement in comparison to the teamster's, No leverage, On these point's alone one could form a bias opinion.

Now again why should most vote for nothing but promises? And how can I believe my monies would be invested wisely by the APWA, and furthermore how do I know that eventually there will not be criminal's in the pention fund of the APWA splondering monies for thier benifit and not mine.

Say what you will but there is truth too the statement 1 co. 1 union. This promotes leverage, and fortunatly is better than what we currently have....

The benchmark you refer to can also be used in a democratic way in the teamster's as well. After all we have the power to change our elected officials if they stink.....

Furthermore all pentions are having trouble, the teamster's are certainly not unique too this problem as opposed to other's ( FDX ) for example . More and more companies are vearing away from the plan's to increase profit's. Eventually pention's will become dinosoar's, just a matter of time.....
 
I found the AWPA lawyers web site surfing the Teamsters page.
Williams Mullen

The Teamsters claim this lawyer works with companies to help them avoid anything to do with labor union organizing.

Its really hard to know where this new union is coming from with their only lawyer,working to bust unions?
 
Apostolic said:
I found the AWPA lawyers web site surfing the Teamsters page.
Williams Mullen

The Teamsters claim this lawyer works with companies to help them avoid anything to do with labor union organizing.

Its really hard to know where this new union is coming from with their only lawyer,working to bust unions?
Click to expand...

No leverage and negotiating power = detremental aftermath. I can just wonder where this man came from.
 
nospinzone said:
Buster, you ask questions to which, I presume, you already know the answer. Since APWA was formed two years ago, they have no history to which your questions can be addressed. You can't overlook the lack of a track record. Past performance is always the best indicator of future performance. In this situation, you should approach this as if purchasing stock in an IPO. Ask Van and Danny the detailed questions. How are they going to manage the pension? How will health benefits change after retirement? A lot of this stuff is defined on the website, but as you point out, details need to be explained, which will require you to pick up the phone or speak with them at a meeting.

Looking at the past performance of the IBT is possible though. Pension performance--declining payouts and funded liability across the nation with a few exceptions. If you read the August, 2006 Independent Special Counsel report which describes Central States performance, a 10 year IRS extension and increased employer contributions are the only thing keeping CS from a statutory funding deficiency---for the near term. Health insurance--decreased coverage with increased premiums. Baptist Medical Center (Wake Forest Univ/Bowman Gray Medical College) in Winston-Salem, NC began refusing to accept the CS insurance a while back. Contract enforcement--increasing time to resolving grievances. Teamsters are responsible for servicing not only UPS contracts, but also the slew of other companies that distracts from the attention they could be giving you. I’ve pointed out the negative Teamster points. My bias and the bad taste they have put in my mouth preclude me from being positive about the Teamsters. These are indicators of most recent performance, not to discredit the good they did 10 and 20 years ago. Should you vote in the upcoming November elections based on how President Nixon or Ford performed or how the current administration is performing?

If there are specifics you would like to discuss here, point them out. Goals and clearly defined plans to achieve those goals are how challengers win government elections against incumbents every year. These goals and plans and how they allign with you and your co-workers priorities should be the benchmark you use to make your decisions.
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Yes, I do know the answers of the questions that I have asked. At this stage of the game after trucking 28 years I hope to retire in the near future. So approaching this organization is if I was purchasing stock is not a good Idea. As we all know purchasing stock is always a gamble. And I am not willing to gamble the few years I have left to work.
 
Your looking forward to retirement BusterNite?
Do you have any plans for the easy chair years of your life?

You know its best if you have a plan in place.

You can't just hang up your steering wheel after all these years.
Than go to the rocking chair,with the clicker in one hand,and a cold beverage in the other,to wait for Gods date to send you to that great truck stop in the sky.

In other words you can't be active the first part of your life,to dry up the rest of it.
 
BusterNite said:
Yes, I do know the answers of the questions that I have asked. At this stage of the game after trucking 28 years I hope to retire in the near future. So approaching this organization is if I was purchasing stock is not a good Idea. As we all know purchasing stock is always a gamble. And I am not willing to gamble the few years I have left to work.
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Must be a plant, From what I understand HRS. is considering going APWA!!!! Big mistake as far as I am concearned , But this could also be a trial and error for the rest of us too, Wait and see.......:sombrero2:
 
Accelerator said:
Must be a plant, From what I understand HRS. is considering going APWA!!!! Big mistake as far as I am concearned , But this could also be a trial and error for the rest of us too, Wait and see.......:sombrero2:
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Hold on, I gotta puke.......again. :puke:
 
Oh come on Accelerator,is this another rumor,your friends,or co-workers have cooked up?

I need more proof to believe this one?

With just what has been found out,and posted on these truckingboards of late.
How could anyone in their right mind want anything to do with this rebel union?
Or so called union I should say?

I for one can not believe a terminal as large as Harrisburg would want to be in a no name union?

We are better off being non-union than to be in a union with no members,and no track record of organizing any other companies.

This information about our Harrisburg terminal is just way to wierd to swallow?

I just don't know,it makes no sence to me?
 
Apostolic said:
Oh come on Accelerator,is this another rumor,your friends,or co-workers have cooked up?

I need more proof to believe this one?

With just what has been found out,and posted on these truckingboards of late.
How could anyone in their right mind want anything to do with this rebel union?
Or so called union I should say?

I for one can not believe a terminal as large as Harrisburg would want to be in a no name union?

We are better off being non-union than to be in a union with no members,and no track record of organizing any other companies.

This information about our Harrisburg terminal is just way to wierd to swallow?

I just don't know,it makes no sence to me?
Click to expand...

I firmly agree with you Apo. and no it is not something I have cooked up, when the harrisburgh drivers come into our term. at nite they are telling us how much they cannot stand the teamster's and alot are considering the alternate. I am just as astonished as you believing they could be so foolish, I cannot give you an exact # of coarse, but the talk is there.

Some have gone to the extent of sending cards for this union to our terminal for us to sighn......
 
bamaboy said:
Skeet,
We may not get very much at all. Most companies that are having to go through a contract like UPS with Indy will wait until that contract is finished before giving out anything. They will not want to give anything unless they negotiate it. If they give it to us non-union, then they will have to automatically give it up in the Indy contract. We will probably have to wait until the contract is settled in Indy to see many improvements in the sick pay and etc.
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You are so incorrect ,,about given up any raise that you non union terminals would get ..We were told at the meeting we had in Sept. that what ever the company gave the rest of the company they would not take it back ,,You need to understand the teamsters and the company know what we are all gonna get ,,so don't think you will get something and the rest of us won't.
 
Accelerator said:
No track record , A rumor stating they can double my monies in retirement in comparison to the teamster's, No leverage.
Click to expand...
Your arguement of no track record is the only one that holds water. I've made my decision based on the comparison of the APWA's plan for success and IBT's plan and recent past performance. APWA's pension goals are possible because ALL of your pension contributions will go to you, as opposed to the Teamster plans where 60cents of your dollar goes to a non-UPS retiree. APWA can double the retirement checks for a new hire under their plan because the member will be getting ALL of their money instead of half. Negotiating leverage comes from the unity of the employees. IBT's only leverage is the willingness of the UPS employees to collectively threaten with a strike. The leverage wasn't there when IBT went for Overnite the last time, resulting in IBT's embarrasing defeat. If the people of UPSF choose to collectively pursue representation from APWA, the unity and leverage will be there. Harrisburg is going APWA because collectively and in unity THEY WANT APWA. The people have done the leg work. Eason and Skillman hardly had to lift a finger outside of answering the barrage of phone calls from Pa.

Accelerator said:
And how can I believe my monies would be invested wisely by the APWA, and furthermore how do I know that eventually there will not be criminal's in the pention fund of the APWA splondering monies for thier benifit and not mine.
Click to expand...
Who's to say the same thing won't happen with IBT. Hell, that's already happened with IBT. Hoffa Campaign Busted for Laundering Members' Dues AGAIN Teamster $100,000 Club Check out that club link. The salaries that these guys are getting are outrageous. APWA has set up transparency and membership oversight to prevent such wasteful managment.

Accelerator said:
Say what you will but there is truth too the statement 1 co. 1 union. This promotes leverage,...
Click to expand...
I agree. But there would be just as much leverage if not more with Blue and Brown represented by APWA. Leverage is only the capability of executing a financially threatening strike, which is the only thing UPS cares about. IBT's vast and distracting interests/liabilities that rely on UPS dues and pension contributions will prevent them from aggresively negotiating with UPS. Teamster's need UPS more than UPS needs them.

Accelerator said:
Furthermore all pentions are having trouble, the teamster's are certainly not unique too this problem as opposed to other's ( FDX ) for example . More and more companies are vearing away from the plan's to increase profit's. Eventually pention's will become dinosoar's, just a matter of time.....
Click to expand...
Your statement here makes total sense. Pensions are having trouble. And as a UPSF employee, with a currently well funded retirement plan, you want to give that money over to the Teamsters so they can throw it into their money pit? APWA is a vehicle that would allow, if the people on the Blue side desire, to stay in the current retirement plan or join the APWA pension fund. The flexibility is there which allows the member to choose which direction to go.

But thats just my opinion.
 
nospinzone said:
Your arguement of no track record is the only one that holds water. I've made my decision based on the comparison of the APWA's plan for success and IBT's plan and recent past performance. APWA's pension goals are possible because ALL of your pension contributions will go to you, as opposed to the Teamster plans where 60cents of your dollar goes to a non-UPS retiree. APWA can double the retirement checks for a new hire under their plan because the member will be getting ALL of their money instead of half. Negotiating leverage comes from the unity of the employees. IBT's only leverage is the willingness of the UPS employees to collectively threaten with a strike. The leverage wasn't there when IBT went for Overnite the last time, resulting in IBT's embarrasing defeat. If the people of UPSF choose to collectively pursue representation from APWA, the unity and leverage will be there. Harrisburg is going APWA because collectively and in unity THEY WANT APWA. The people have done the leg work. Eason and Skillman hardly had to lift a finger outside of answering the barrage of phone calls from Pa.

Who's to say the same thing won't happen with IBT. Hell, that's already happened with IBT. Hoffa Campaign Busted for Laundering Members' Dues AGAIN Teamster $100,000 Club Check out that club link. The salaries that these guys are getting are outrageous. APWA has set up transparency and membership oversight to prevent such wasteful managment.

I agree. But there would be just as much leverage if not more with Blue and Brown represented by APWA. Leverage is only the capability of executing a financially threatening strike, which is the only thing UPS cares about. IBT's vast and distracting interests/liabilities that rely on UPS dues and pension contributions will prevent them from aggresively negotiating with UPS. Teamster's need UPS more than UPS needs them.

Your statement here makes total sense. Pensions are having trouble. And as a UPSF employee, with a currently well funded retirement plan, you want to give that money over to the Teamsters so they can throw it into their money pit? APWA is a vehicle that would allow, if the people on the Blue side desire, to stay in the current retirement plan or join the APWA pension fund. The flexibility is there which allows the member to choose which direction to go.

But thats just my opinion.
Click to expand...

The apwa has a problem with the IBT, and the only reason their interested in us is to somehow getback at them.

The pension is their big concern, Van had an issue with the IBT and it was the pension.

The pension issue was with the parcel side and it will have nothing to do with us.

Don't get fooled by the promises these guys are making, thier big target is Parcel. Were just a stepping stone towards their goal. After that we will be on the outside looking in.
 
Here's the biggest question to ask. Would you trust a S C A B to lead your union in negotiations? Oh yea, lets rush out an decertify and join these two s c a b s and there union busting lawyer. They've already proven to be untrustworthy
 
steve5 said:
The apwa has a problem with the IBT, and the only reason their interested in us is to somehow getback at them.

The pension is their big concern, Van had an issue with the IBT and it was the pension.

The pension issue was with the parcel side and it will have nothing to do with us.

Don't get fooled by the promises these guys are making, thier big target is Parcel. Were just a stepping stone towards their goal. After that we will be on the outside looking in.
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Steve, your skepticism is giving too much credit to Van. The success that they've enjoyed in Harrisburg and Kansas City and across multiple other centers in the south and north is not a result of some vendetta to screw the Teamsters over. It's a result of your own people within UPSF wanting a union free of corruption that will place the members wishes as priority.

The pension is the big issue inside Parcel. We have been serioiusly screwed over which initially prompted this movement. But that doesn't have to be your big issue. The direction that a Blue division of APWA will go will be determined by the choices you and your co-workers will make. The contract that APWA negotiates for parcel will be addressing parcel concerns. And the contract they negotiate for freight will address the concerns that you guys voice, such as cutting routes and adding part-timers to cut full-time employees, which I hear is becoming an issue. The charter was set up to make this union membership driven. The business agents that will service your center will be chosen by you and your co-workers. Don't take my word for it. Talk to your people in other centers across the country. Pick up the phone and address your concerns to Van or Danny. Or send them an email and they will call you. Allow them to give you feedback on how they have laid the framework for a union that is strong enough to handle Uncle Buster, but flexible enough to respond to membership needs, and how a strong unified Brown and Blue side is in the best interests of everyone. I fear that this false vendetta impression that you have regarding Van will preclude you from objectively looking at how you can use the APWA to achieve improvements in your center for you and your co-workers. But best of luck in your decision.
 
krash said:
Here's the biggest question to ask. Would you trust a S C A B to lead your union in negotiations? Oh yea, lets rush out an decertify and join these two s c a b s and there union busting lawyer. They've already proven to be untrustworthy
Click to expand...
Great post Krash! The truth about the APWA.....no Union minded person should do anything more than laugh at them.
 
Accelerator said:
No track record , No performance record, A rumor stating they can double my monies in retirement in comparison to the teamster's, No leverage, On these point's alone one could form a bias opinion.

Now again why should most vote for nothing but promises? And how can I believe my monies would be invested wisely by the APWA, and furthermore how do I know that eventually there will not be criminal's in the pention fund of the APWA splondering monies for thier benifit and not mine.

Say what you will but there is truth too the statement 1 co. 1 union. This promotes leverage, and fortunatly is better than what we currently have....

The benchmark you refer to can also be used in a democratic way in the teamster's as well. After all we have the power to change our elected officials if they stink.....

Furthermore all pentions are having trouble, the teamster's are certainly not unique too this problem as opposed to other's ( FDX ) for example . More and more companies are vearing away from the plan's to increase profit's. Eventually pention's will become dinosoar's, just a matter of time.....
Click to expand...

I would rather go with no track record than the teamsters track record.:Banger-Cow:
 
Skeeter said:
I would rather go with no track record than the teamsters track record.:Banger-Cow:
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LOL! Yeah, who in their right mind would want to go with the Teamsters? All they've ever done is provide the best pay, benefits and working conditions available to their members for about 100 years.....what an embarrassing track record.
 
stldude44 said:
LOL! Yeah, who in their right mind would want to go with the Teamsters? All they've ever done is provide the best pay, benefits and working conditions available to their members for about 100 years.....what an embarrassing track record.
Click to expand...

You forgot all the corruption. Oh I guess that is ok as long as you get a little dab on your plate. We there are a lot of people that don't agree with you. :ranting2:
 
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