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albag said:
I asked a question. You could have answered it.
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I did. Who are you bossing around? I am just a poster not a MOD. They will be glad to tell you the rules. Again you come here trying to cause trouble. If my thread did not erase yesterday's debacle then we are at a stand off.
 
Muler said:
I hope you can someday come to grips with the fact that we can all have an opinion. I hope you find some peace within.
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I have peace. I state my opinion and am open to debate with all that do so peacefully. I'm done with you, Sir... I would appreciate you being done with me.
 
jimmy g said:
Three from abf started it on yrc forum during the mou debates. I apologize to any and all except two still here and one banned the past year for disruption.
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There is nobody banned from here than I am aware of. jimmy g one of the biggest issues I have with you is your lack of respect for the facts. As far as those MOU's are concerned I know I was around alright and when someone tried to run me off I simply explained how important they were to me and my coworkers. As I see it they are/were a lot more important to me than they are to you and we all can see the fallout from them and how it has affected not only us at ABF but the entire freight industry. The Teamsters have lowered the benchmark we all live by and for the first time in history the entire working force in the freight industry has sacrificed to save one company. And, quite frankly given the step down for all of us and the mega bonuses for those at the top I don't see that anything was gained from the YRC give backs.
 
ABFer said:
There is nobody banned from here than I am aware of. jimmy g one of the biggest issues I have with you is your lack of respect for the facts. As far as those MOU's are concerned I know I was around alright and when someone tried to run me off I simply explained how important they were to me and my coworkers. As I see it they are/were a lot more important to me than they are to you and we all can see the fallout from them and how it has affected not only us at ABF but the entire freight industry. The Teamsters have lowered the benchmark we all live by and for the first time in history the entire working force in the freight industry has sacrificed to save one company. And, quite frankly given the step down for all of us and the mega bonuses for those at the top I don't see that anything was gained from the YRC give backs.
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I disagree. Completely. Your 'facts' are just your opinion. What you appear to dislike is that I see that.

But as I've said several times now; I'm willing to let it go- soon as you agree to stop coming to yrc board and stirring. Even easygoing mud pointed it out that most problems there are answers to guys like you stirring. Call a Truce- I stay there, you stay here. I can hold my end of that...

My mistake on the banned. I thought Docker was. Guess not.. Sorry.

The yrc mou didn't kill the pension as much as Congress ordering payouts raised did long ago. ABF is hurt, yes- but had YRCW closed the majority of those workers would've retired. CSPF would've collapsed in a year. No one won that one. Just kept Teamsters working so there still is s pension. 18 billion dollars divided by 410000 teamsters is 43000 bucks apeice. Not enough to retire on...
 
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jimmy g said:
I disagree. Completely. Your 'facts' are just your opinion. What you appear to dislike is that I see that.

But as I've said several times now; I'm willing to let it go- soon as you agree to stop coming to yrc board and stirring. Even easygoing mud pointed it out that most problems there are answers to guys like you stirring. Call a Truce- I stay there, you stay here. I can hold my end of that...

My mistake on the banned. I thought Docker was. Guess not.. Sorry.

The yrc moy didn't kulk the pension as much as Congress ordering payouts raised did long ago. ABF is hurt, yes- but had YRCW closed the majority of those workers would've retired. CSPF would've collapsed in a year. No one won that one. Just kept Teamsters working so there still is s pension
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I'm not trying to run you or anyone else out of here. Feel free to carry on. I just can't get over how all of the requests for me to go away come from guys who are not working at YRC. :shrug:
 
ABFer said:
I'm not trying to run you or anyone else out of here. Feel free to carry on. I just can't get over how all of the requests for me to go away come from guys who are not working at YRC. :shrug:
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I only came here because of saturday followed by this thread's first post. That has been settled/ ended. Muler and I are done going at it. I've asked you to end our problem too and posted a solution. I'll start nothing more. The next move is yours...
 
ABFer said:
I'm not trying to run you or anyone else out of here. Feel free to carry on. I just can't get over how all of the requests for me to go away come from guys who are not working at YRC. :shrug:
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The way I see it, nothing is gained by vulgarly attacking one another. And that is the ONLY objection I have to muler. It appears, for the time being, civility is back.
I agree 100% with jimmy g. The closure of YRCW companies would have been a fatal catastrophe for ALL Teamster pension funds. And I'm quite aware that is OPINION on my part.
 
jimmy g said:
The yrc mou didn't kill the pension as much as Congress ordering payouts raised did long ago. ABF is hurt, yes- but had YRCW closed the majority of those workers would've retired. CSPF would've collapsed in a year. No one won that one. Just kept Teamsters working so there still is s pension. 18 billion dollars divided by 410000 teamsters is 43000 bucks apeice. Not enough to retire on...
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"The yrc mou didn't kill the pension as much as Congress".You would still end up in jail if you used that defense in court because your own reasoning is not sound."Hey judge,I didnt kill george as much as fred did,he used an axe while I only used a sledge hammer.Guess what,the man still ends up obliterated even if fred stayed home that day playing checkers.I'm sure you can come up with something better than that if you think hard and long enough on your next trip out.

"had YRCW closed the majority of those workers would've retired. CSPF would've collapsed in a year" Theres an argument based soley on your opinion not fact.You refuse to differentiate between the two in a poor attempt of making your case viable.Let me be clear on this,yrc teamsters werent the only participants in the pension fund so the pension shouldnt have even been considered being part of that mou in no way shape or form.Heres my opinion,there would of been many other alternatives drafted had that yrc mou been rejected or whos to say yrc would of folded at all even if the decision was to not go with any other alternatives.That argument that those like you that use that pitiful reason of the yrc teamsters voting for that mou were acting in the best interests of the brotherhood and pension fund is hogwash. That decision was based soley on fear of possibly losing their job and the future consequences that could have on the brotherhood as a whole never entered the picture.That was just an excuse made up after the fact to justify the means.Anyone can find an acceptable excuse to justify their actions in order to have a clear conscience even if its based on fantasy instead of reality.

As for your statement "No one won that one". You couldnt be more wrong,everyone except the membership won on that one.
 
nounionfool said:
"The yrc mou didn't kill the pension as much as Congress".You would still end up in jail if you used that defense in court because your own reasoning is not sound."Hey judge,I didnt kill george as much as fred did,he used an axe while I only used a sledge hammer.Guess what,the man still ends up obliterated even if fred stayed home that day playing checkers.I'm sure you can come up with something better than that if you think hard and long enough on your next trip out.

"had YRCW closed the majority of those workers would've retired. CSPF would've collapsed in a year" Theres an argument based soley on your opinion not fact.You refuse to differentiate between the two in a poor attempt of making your case viable.Let me be clear on this,yrc teamsters werent the only participants in the pension fund so the pension shouldnt have even been considered being part of that mou in no way shape or form.Heres my opinion,there would of been many other alternatives drafted had that yrc mou been rejected or whos to say yrc would of folded at all even if the decision was to not go with any other alternatives.That argument that those like you that use that pitiful reason of the yrc teamsters voting for that mou were acting in the best interests of the brotherhood and pension fund is hogwash. That decision was based soley on fear of possibly losing their job and the future consequences that could have on the brotherhood as a whole never entered the picture.That was just an excuse made up after the fact to justify the means.Anyone can find an acceptable excuse to justify their actions in order to have a clear conscience even if its based on fantasy instead of reality.

As for your statement "No one won that one". You couldnt be more wrong,everyone except the membership won on that one.
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That was an answer to abfer. Your opinions and my opinions disagree. There are few facts on trucking boards, 95% of posts, perhaps more, are opinions. I won't debate you. Go in peace.
 
jimmy g said:
That was an answer to abfer. Your opinions and my opinions disagree. There are few facts on trucking boards, 95% of posts, perhaps more, are opinions. I won't debate you. Go in peace.
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I beg to differ so you will debate me,remember you are the one that took it upon yourself to come here on the abf section spewing innuendos and accusing abfer of using opinions as facts so how about finishing what you started please. That is unless you just came here to stir the pot and show disrespect to the abf teamsters .So which is it? Do you consider it ok for you to accuse someone of using opinions as facts but not the way around. Or are we to look beyond that because you consider that one of your privileges of being a long standing member? You are here now so why not make the best of it.
 
jimmy g said:
I disagree. Completely. Your 'facts' are just your opinion. What you appear to dislike is that I see that.

But as I've said several times now; I'm willing to let it go- soon as you agree to stop coming to yrc board and stirring. Even easygoing mud pointed it out that most problems there are answers to guys like you stirring. Call a Truce- I stay there, you stay here. I can hold my end of that...

My mistake on the banned. I thought Docker was. Guess not.. Sorry.

The yrc mou didn't kill the pension as much as Congress ordering payouts raised did long ago. ABF is hurt, yes- but had YRCW closed the majority of those workers would've retired. CSPF would've collapsed in a year. No one won that one. Just kept Teamsters working so there still is s pension. 18 billion dollars divided by 410000 teamsters is 43000 bucks apeice. Not enough to retire on...
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A question. If you want ABFer to stop going to the yrc forum then you would have to take the only first step to show your real concern for the forum. You sir are not a yrc Teamster or employee at all. So therefore you should be the first to vacate the forum if what you posted was sincere.

Mud welcomed me back and that is how two BROTHER TEAMSTERS treat each other. Mud and I have had our differences(DAMN TIGERS lol).
But jimmy you are on this forum trying to defend two grown males that can if need be take care of themselves and it just looks weird that you do this in a freaky looking way. Now you have stated the reason why ABFer should stay out and now I would expect you to no longer go to the yrc forum if you really have any honor left.

This is not a do as I say not as I do site is it? And if ABFer chooses to post there it will be his choice. But hey the ball is in your court integrity I don't think is one of your stronger suits but we will see when you quit going there.

And as for your jimmy world PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH! YOUR BROTHER IN GOD ALWAYS!
 
I read your comment. I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on Hostess? You remember them? They filed bankruptcy and put thousands of Teamsters, many in CSPF, out of work.
You want to blame everything on YRCW. That IMO is a seriously flawed assumption.
The quote from nonunionfool is missing.
 
albag said:
The way I see it, nothing is gained by vulgarly attacking one another. And that is the ONLY objection I have to muler. It appears, for the time being, civility is back.
I agree 100% with jimmy g. The closure of YRCW companies would have been a fatal catastrophe for ALL Teamster pension funds. And I'm quite That;s the kettle calling the pot
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albag said:
I read your comment. I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on Hostess? You remember them? They filed bankruptcy and put thousands of Teamsters, many in CSPF, out of work.
You want to blame everything on YRCW. That IMO is a seriously flawed assumption.
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He has not blamed everything on yrc. As I see it he is saying that a great deal of the freight industries demise stems from the yrc MOU';s and if you don't agree then that is your opinion.

And you need to recheck your CSPF hostess employees. Please post the link for the numbers of Hostess Teamsters that were in CSPF. Or did you just dream that up?
 
albag said:
I read your comment. I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on Hostess? You remember them? They filed bankruptcy and put thousands of Teamsters, many in CSPF, out of work.
You want to blame everything on YRCW. That IMO is a seriously flawed assumption.
The quote from nonunionfool is missing.
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Just to touch on your post again. If the ibt and the pension funds had held Hostess to their pension liabilities in the beginning of that mess there would have been nothing left for the greedy executives to take from their Teamster employees. In stead they gave themselves huge raises and bonuses before closing. And you cry about how your Brothers and Sisters there voted. I guess Welch's 10 million dollars did not bother you either.
 
The bonuses paid to senior management at YRCW is NOT OK with me. However those bonuses represent a tiny percentage of YRCW's gross revenue.
 
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