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Crazy Trucker said:
Man I just did open enrollment last week must have missed the 90/10 plan like ups has, for less than our Cadillac that is really a pinto plan. I would gladly drive a hour and half away to get medical procedures done if you don't have to pay like we do. I'm sure we use even more on PT so what's your point? Only a clown can come up with some petty stuff like this and call it a "matter of opinion". :clap:
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It's 85/15 for the top plan with 15 dollar co pays and no yearly deduction. We also have a 1500 max out of pocket. The cost is 45 single, 90 one plus and 135 for family a month. We also have a free plan at 80/20 with 20 copay. The medical and pension is the best thing about UPS. You guys will definitely go ahead of us the next 5 years on pay. But this is one of the best things for me about working for UPSF. The insurance also hasn't gone up in 10 year and if the contract passes it wouldn't go up the next 5 either.
 
William at UPGF said:
It's 85/15 for the top plan with 15 dollar co pays and no yearly deduction. We also have a 1500 max out of pocket. The cost is 45 single, 90 one plus and 135 for family a month. We also have a free plan at 80/20 with 20 copay. The medical and pension is the best thing about UPS. You guys will definitely go ahead of us the next 5 years on pay. But this is one of the best things for me about working for UPSF. The insurance also hasn't gone up in 10 year and if the contract passes it wouldn't go up the next 5 either.
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Thank you for posting details. No matter of opinion there your insurance is much better.
 
Dick Dastardly said:
They have a far better total compensation package. They enjoy the highest pay in the industry that also includes: post retiree healthcare, better and cheaper medical, a defined pension benefit, a top wage that's system wide. They also have clear, defined, work rules and protections in writing, that aren't open for interpretation.
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Man........havent been on here for quite a while, but it is comforting to see that some things dont change. Your use of the of the subjective words "better" and "cheaper" in the first few sentences automatically place your statement into the realm of opinion. It May be better and cheaper to you, but you can't assume it for all.

I suppose the defined pension benefit statement is accurate, but only to the extent that no one changes the definition. If you think that doesn't/hasnt happened, i would direct you to google for your research.......sadly, many out there are not getting what was once considered defined or guaranteed to them.
I will let Tommy Boy expose the flaw in your conclusion regarding the rules in writing.

A guarantee is only as good as the person making it.........if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, fine.....i have spare time.

The point is that while something in writing May make you feel all warm and secure, it doesnt necessarily mean anything is absolute.

You can stand in the square and thump your copy of das capital until your blue in the face, but just because it is in writing and sounds plausible, it doesnt make Marxism a good idea that will actually work.....

There is a good chance that for every "rule", there is also a legal out written in that blurs "fair".

One might only have to look at the recent parcel contract ratification and ask how 54% of those guys feel about it....
 
aflifer said:
Man........havent been on here for quite a while, but it is comforting to see that some things dont change. Your use of the of the subjective words "better" and "cheaper" in the first few sentences automatically place your statement into the realm of opinion. It May be better and cheaper to you, but you can't assume it for all.

I suppose the defined pension benefit statement is accurate, but only to the extent that no one changes the definition. If you think that doesn't/hasnt happened, i would direct you to google for your research.......sadly, many out there are not getting what was once considered defined or guaranteed to them.
I will let Tommy Boy expose the flaw in your conclusion regarding the rules in writing.

A guarantee is only as good as the person making it.........if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, fine.....i have spare time.

The point is that while something in writing May make you feel all warm and secure, it doesnt necessarily mean anything is absolute.

You can stand in the square and thump your copy of das capital until your blue in the face, but just because it is in writing and sounds plausible, it doesnt make Marxism a good idea that will actually work.....

There is a good chance that for every "rule", there is also a legal out written in that blurs "fair".

One might only have to look at the recent parcel contract ratification and ask how 54% of those guys feel about it....
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Man, you mention the "U" word and they all suddenly reappear. Coincidence?
 
aflifer said:
Nope......but your investigative skills sure seem exceptionally sharp. Not sure whether i see you as the CNN or the MSNBC of truckingboards.......keep trying to build a narrative though...
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There is no narrative, but I will give you credit it's hard to argue against facts that have been stated and pass them off as opinions. Only on tb.....
 
Crazy Trucker said:
There is no narrative, but I will give you credit it's hard to argue against facts that have been stated and pass them off as opinions. Only on tb.....
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Any time that the word better is used, it pretty much disqualifies that particular statement from being fact.

In passing off ones opinion as fact, it weakens debate......this is a problem with politicians and much of the media. They believe that they know what is best for you, even better than you do.

I find it much more appealing for information to be presented for me to process, then i make up my own mind what is "better" for me, which would then become my own opinion, no more or less valuable than anyone elses.....
 
aflifer said:
Any time that the word better is used, it pretty much disqualifies that particular statement from being fact.

In passing off ones opinion as fact, it weakens debate......this is a problem with politicians and much of the media. They believe that they know what is best for you, even better than you do.

I find it much more appealing for information to be presented for me to process, then i make up my own mind what is "better" for me, which would then become my own opinion, no more or less valuable than anyone elses.....
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First of all there is no debate. Our insurance is inferior to UPSF. I used a different word to make you happy. So which is worse a politician lying saying something is better when it's really not or an employer trying to pass off a inferior insurance plan equal to a clearly superior plan?
 
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Crazy Trucker said:
First of all there is no debate. Our insurance is inferior to UPSF. I used a different word to make you happy. So which is worse a politician lying saying something is better when it's really not or an employer trying to pass off a inferior insurance plan to a clearly superior plan?
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Ya see......there in lies the problem......at no point did i state that one was better than another. You are the one that has eatablished your opinion to that "fact". It is all about perspective and values...........some may feel that certain facets in that plan (an example might be the travel times mentioned earlier) outweigh any other positives, others may not, which is perfectly fine, as we still live in a country with a small semblance of personal liberty (for now). The bottom line is that because you may feel that the positives outweigh any negatives, it doesnt make it a FACT. Personally, i am not sure which would be better for me, as I havent wasted the time and energy to consider options that arent currently available to me. But the one thing i am absolutely sure of is that i dont trust that you can effectively decide what is "better" for me......no one gets to decide that but me........well, maybe the mrs at certain times....
 
Big Dave said:
Is it time for a Debs quote yet???
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Would you settle for Mary "Mother Jones" Harris?

"The labor movement was not originated by man. The labor movement, my friends, was a command from God Almighty. He commanded the prophets thousands of years ago to go down and redeem the Israelites that were in bondage, and he organized the men into a union and went to work. And they said, "The masters have made us gather straw; they have been more cruel than they were before." "What are we going to do?" The prophet said, "A voice from heaven has come to get you together." They got together and the prophet led them out of the land of bondage and robbery and plunder into the land of freedom. And when the army of the pirates followed them the Dead Sea opened and swallowed them up, and for the first time the workers were free."
 
aflifer said:
Ya see......there in lies the problem......at no point did i state that one was better than another. You are the one that has eatablished your opinion to that "fact". It is all about perspective and values...........some may feel that certain facets in that plan (an example might be the travel times mentioned earlier) outweigh any other positives, others may not, which is perfectly fine, as we still live in a country with a small semblance of personal liberty (for now). The bottom line is that because you may feel that the positives outweigh any negatives, it doesnt make it a FACT. Personally, i am not sure which would be better for me, as I havent wasted the time and energy to consider options that arent currently available to me. But the one thing i am absolutely sure of is that i dont trust that you can effectively decide what is "better" for me......no one gets to decide that but me........well, maybe the mrs at certain times....
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Listen we all get the managers way of speaking to employees... talking in circles, insinuating things, and avoiding questions so spare us. Now back to the facts about our insurance compared to theirs, our premiums, deductibles, and co pays are higher than their's plus our best plan is 80/20 vs 85/15. Those are facts no opinions. I don't expect you to take the energy to look at upsf plan and compare it to ours, because even if you did it be some mumbo jumbo and you wouldn't be allowed to speak objectively about it.
 
Crazy Trucker said:
Listen we all get the managers way of speaking to employees... talking in circles, insinuating things, and avoiding questions so spare us. Now back to the facts about our insurance compared to theirs, our premiums, deductibles, and co pays are higher than their's plus our best plan is 80/20 vs 85/15. Those are facts no opinions. I don't expect you to take the energy to look at upsf plan and compare it to ours, because even if you did it be some mumbo jumbo and you wouldn't be allowed to speak objectively about it.
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You don't know me, what i do, or how I do it......so it would behoove you to not lump me in with your concept of "manager-speak". I dont have an issue with your argument, i just choose to point out that you actually weaken what might actually be effective arguments by interjecting irrelevant opinions into your message.
Is it really a managers job to convince you about anything? I don't believe it is, dont rely on anyone else to tell me what my thoughts are, so I wouldnt presume to do it to anyone else. I do like to ask questions that might make others think or challenge their beliefs. You choose to take those as arguments or even attacks. Discussing something objectively involves probing questions that might make the other person re-think their position or you yours, bringing value to the conversation.
You provided 4 pieces of information, which appear to be factual and could be compelling to a person who is solely focused on those 4 criteria. I might require more information before i made my decision because those particular 4 areas may not be as relevant to my situation as they are to yours. That doesnt make me stupid, dense, or any of the other colorful names you utilize, it is the freedom I have to be responsible for my own decisions.
For instance, i might ask if life insurance or short term or long term disability is provided as part of their health benefits package. I honestly dont know that answer, maybe someone else here does, but it would certainly be a factor to some one that places a high value on those items and can objectively weigh them against the obvious premium differences, co pays and extra percentage points for costs above the deductible. Again, no idea what the answer is to that question, nor how each person would value it, but i certainly wouldnt be short-sighted enough to call them stupid if their opinion differred from mine after they weighed it out.

Not sure what struck me to get on here today, boredom maybe, but you can return to your regularly scheduled program now.....

Be safe!
AF
 
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